July 25, 2024 · 41 minutes · Episode 417

About this episode

Hilary Duff returns to discuss the birth of her fourth child in part 2 of this two part series.

Connect with Hilary: @hilaryduff

A message from the host: Get 20% off your first order of my favorite perinatal supplements with code BERLIN. Shop thisisneeded.com

Key quotes

“But right now I do feel a little bit like a shell of myself, but that's just like the early stages of like postpartum, you know, you're just kind of like figuring it out.”

“And I think what I know this time around is like, it's just temporary. You know, a blip until the next phase is coming by and then you don't really remember this one.”

“But I look forward to spending more time on myself and knowing that pregnancy is behind me.”

“I was literally in active labor from the get-go and I just remember thinking like, okay, I just need every single one of my contractions to work for me. I'm just going and I'm trusting the process.”

“I'm just looking at her face and I'm like so filled with like happiness and love and like obsession. And it's crazy that those two things like in natural birth can exist within mere seconds of each other.”

Related episodes

• Ep. 416 Hilary Duff: A Birth Story (Part 1)
• Ep. 414 Aly Michalka: After Birth
• Ep. 418 Exploring Freebirth with Catalina Clark
• Ep. 424 Leedia Riman: After Birth

Transcript

AI-generated transcript with speaker labels — may contain errors, especially names and medical terms. Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC appears in blue; Hilary Duff in orange.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [0:12] Welcome to the Informed Pregnancy and Parenting Podcast. I'm your host, pregnancy-focused chiropractor, Dr. Elliott Berlin, and today I'm resuming my conversation with actress, recording artist, and mother of four, Hilary Duff. We're talking about everything from closing the chapter on pregnancy journeys to what's next in motherhood, career, and maintaining a healthy marriage with her husband, Matt. We recorded the second half of the conversation on the same day, much later at night, after a long day of working, parenting, and generally just getting it all done. Due to the change in scenery, recording my part muffled in my bedroom closet, my audio

[1:13] isn't amazing, but luckily for you, Hilary's sound is lovely as ever. Without further ado, here's part two of my conversation with Hilary Duff. Thanks for listening. Okay, let's talk about, you got all the kids out. Congratulations. You had the pregnancies, the births, the early postpartums. Talk about motherhood. I want to know everything. I mean, now you have kids like all over the map. Like you said, you have pre-teen and you have one going out of toddlerhood, one terrible two with a year of experience. I've told a lot of people that today, I really like that.

Hilary Duff [1:50] One newborn.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [1:51] Yeah. And you're hands on mommy. Like every place your kids go, you're there. And you also work a lot and you have a partner to relate to. The juggle. I mean, how does anybody do it? How do you do it? You have so much going on.

Hilary Duff [2:04] Well, you peppered a lot of compliments in there. So I will say, thank you. I am an extremely hands on mom and I love them so much. You know, I wouldn't have this many if I didn't feel like I liked, you know, being a mom and taking care of them and showing up and, you know, putting them first. So that's, you know, the season of my life right now. And it's like, absolutely lovely that this is the first time I haven't been like racing back to work. And I'm really trying to enjoy that. Work is also something that is a part of my identity and I need to be happy and to feel, you know, whole and fulfilled and like, you know, I'm someone else besides

[2:44] just a mom. But right now I do feel a little bit like a shell of myself, but that's just like the early stages of like postpartum, you know, you're just kind of like figuring it out. And I think what I know this time around is like, it's just temporary. You know, a blip until the next phase is coming by and then you don't really remember this one. So I'm trying to really like sit in it and enjoy it. And, you know, I asked Matt yesterday, it was so cliche, but we were at dinner together and I was like, what's your favorite part about being a dad? And it's really just like the small moments, the funny things you catch your kids doing and saying and something sweet that happens between them.

[3:23] And you're like, oh, my God, this is siblings, you know, or I don't know, just the things that only your family does together that other families don't know about, you know, that you've like created those special things. Inside moments and inside isms, all the jokes that just your family is in on. Yeah, I think that's what makes the long days tolerable. And, you know, Towns has just like started smiling at me and it is like making me so joyous and like breaking my heart at the same time. Like, it's just like it overtakes me and it's really nice to have that experience one last time.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [3:59] Yeah, I guess two questions. One is, are there things that you've learned over 12 years of parenthood that really either you wish somebody would have told you or have time where that maybe you couldn't have learned until you went through it. Lessons learned that you bring into the younger kids.

Hilary Duff [4:15] And I guess sometimes I feel bad for Luca because your first kid, you just like make all the mistakes with. And I don't think that I made a ton of mistakes with him, but there's one time that stands out so much at Disneyland once, or I tried to force him to go on a roller coaster and I just wouldn't do that now. It's so scarred him and he brings it up all the time. And I'm like, what about all the good things? You're going to like go back to that one time at Disneyland when I like kind of, I don't know, a little bit shamed you into going on the roller coaster. He didn't end up doing it. He stood his ground, which is great. But he knew I was like frustrated and let down.

[4:55] Yeah. A little let down. I was like, come on. It's like everyone, you got to try it. You got it. And I just, I absolutely would not do that now, you know? So I think there's a lot of things like that, but he is such an incredible kid and we've just like learned together and you know, you have to learn somehow, right?

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [5:13] Totally. I think there's a lesson. One of my friends told me that he picked up in classes, but it's so true, like the most important thing with all the kids is preserve the friendship, preserve the relationship, you know, like no matter what it is you want them to do, even if it's something, you know, bigger than roller coasters, something academic, something spiritual, something that's meaningful and important. And they just not wanting it. It's not worth pushing because ultimately if you have the

Hilary Duff [5:41] relationship, like dads that just are desperate for their kids to like be sporty and you're like, you want that they don't want that.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [5:48] Yeah. Thank goodness. My dad didn't want that. Neither one of us wanted it. We were so simpawdica.

Hilary Duff [5:54] Academics is a perfect example. Like I want, obviously all my kids work hard, but I want them to find a passion more than that. And my husband's like so big on that. He did really well in school and school was really easy for him. But he's like, I hated every minute of school. And I was like, I made good grades really naturally. He's like, but nothing I learned there really taught me about what I ended up like doing and how I found my passion. So it's like, you have to, I don't know, lean into the things that your kids are interested in and help them like flourish there. Yeah. That's what I'm like, what this grade is and what, you know, totally.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [6:29] And there's a lot of different ways to learn. Not everybody learns the same way. What about sibling relationships? Your kids are siblings. Yeah.

Hilary Duff [6:37] Yeah. The siblings. It is wild to watch. Everyone's of course, obsessed with towns right now. Everyone's really, really great with her. Maymay, she rode the other day from like an art studio that she had art class at, which is like an Encino. She rode all the way home, which is probably like 40 minutes with like holding the pacifier in Townsend's mouth, like her arm draped over the, it was so sweet. She's only three and she's like in her booster and sitting right next to her. And she was like having conversations with me about her day and she kept her hand gently on the soother in cause Townsend's mouth is like a little, we're having to do some like exercises and work on her muscles.

[7:22] She a little lazy. And so the pasties are hard to stay in her mouth and may hold it in her mouth the whole entire time. It was pretty sweet. Banks helped me bathe her today. Very helpful, but they're just like, I'm so excited to have three sisters. It's really a sweet relationship. Vicious at times, tackle each other. They can really poke each other's push each other's buttons. And it reminds me of my childhood a little bit where like banks will have all the words and know all the things to say, and it'll just push the little one to the edge until she just like calls off and wax her like pinches her tackles her down. You know, you're like, no, no, no, no, no.

[8:03] We call it the wind up. I'll listen and banks will be like, don't do that. See, and banks will take, do it again, but kind of like quietly. And then all of a sudden you see May's arm and it's like behind her body. She's about to just fling it right at her. And we're like, yeah, literally wind up.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [8:19] How does this look like having three sisters?

Hilary Duff [8:22] He's just incredible. Like he's great with them banks and him wrestle hard and banks is really strong and obviously he doesn't want to hurt her, but he's a good, he's really patient with them. And I don't think he quite understands that they're going to probably take care of him when he's older, you know, they're going to be like checking in on him and like running the show, but he's great. And then his dad's house, he has all boys over there. So he really gets two separate worlds where at my house, it's like all female energy and over there, it's like boys and sports. And it's probably much stinker of a household.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [8:59] He's got everything. It's really special for him.

Hilary Duff [9:02] It is. It's really nice. I love that he has both. And, you know, it's fun. Her stepbrothers will come over here and play and banks just lives for it.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [9:11] Do you do things one-on-one with each of them?

Hilary Duff [9:16] Yes, we try to, even if it's just like picking one up and going into something after school, we do. I haven't in a little while because obviously I'm so freshly, you know, out from having a baby, but we do. And I try to do it with Luca too, because he's 12 and his needs are so completely different. Then the girls, but 12 years old is still like, he still needs a lot from us. And it's in a totally different way. It's much more like psychological and like heady, you know, navigating relationships and stuff like that. Yikes. Yeah. By the way, I'm lying. He still needs me to cook everything for him, pack his lunch and be his brain and remembering anything and everything he needs before he leaves the house.

[9:56] Right.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [9:56] But he can get dressed. He could take a shower. He correct different kinds of dependence and independence. Totally. Okay. Let's take a quick break and we'll be right back with Hillary Duff.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [10:19] Welcome back to the informed pregnancy podcast and my late night chat with Hillary Duff on motherhood, parenting and everything in between. Do you and Matt have different sort of divide and conquer division of labor in parenting?

Hilary Duff [10:33] Um, division of labor in parenting. I don't know.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [10:37] Do you have your roles and he has his roles or you just, whatever is going to get them and somebody does it.

Hilary Duff [10:42] I think it's a little bit more like that. Whatever gets done. Somebody's somebody just going to do it. And it's a dance, you know, to walk into a house and be like, okay, where are we at? What needs to happen? That kind of thing. He's really good at that.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [10:54] An assessment.

Hilary Duff [10:56] Yes.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [10:56] A little triage. Okay.

Hilary Duff [10:58] I think there's things that like the kids, to be honest, always want me to do. And sometimes when he has to do it, they'll raise a little bit of hell, but he's such a hands-on dad. He wakes up every morning and packs lunches. And of course they all eat different things and like different things. And then it's breakfast. And I usually tend to like get the kids ready and he packs food.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [11:20] Yeah, packing food. That's an important job. Well, speaking of him though, relationship, I mean, there are so many different things pulling in so many different directions, both of you with career and with kids and everything else, how do you keep the relationship healthy and strong?

Hilary Duff [11:38] We try to take weekends away. We did that maybe three times while he was pregnant. We would like go to Ojai is kind of our happy place. We communicate a lot better than how we did when we were first starting to date or even like our first year of marriage, because that was a pandemic year, we got married right before the pandemic. That was a crazy time. Yeah. That was our first year, which was nuts. I remember like, he was so crazy about everything. And I was of course like cautious too, but once we were starting to like get more information and stuff, I was finally like, you need to go to work. You need to get out of here. You need to go to your studio.

[12:20] And then I would like sneak friends over, but you know, I'm trying to think we've just like found this rhythm and it's really nice. Like we like each other so much and we have a great time. And we laugh and we just crave getting in bed at night at the end of the day and like having time to just download information to each other or sit in silence, like with the remote in our hands, just like stare at the wall because we're so tapped. Nothing left. These days are crazy. I mean, you know, we know we're in the thick of it right now. So it doesn't always look like this. And I tend to future trip a little bit and he's like, what are you doing? Like, this is like the good stuff.

[13:06] Like we're, you know, I'm like, well, we haven't like connected in a while. We haven't this and live. Like I get really like nervous about that stuff. And he's like, you need to chill. We're doing the heavy stuff right now. You know, it's going to be a short season.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [13:21] Is that reassuring to you?

Hilary Duff [13:23] When he, yeah, yeah, it's hard.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [13:26] You know, my wife is a psychologist and I've heard her say a million times that relationships between two people are sort of like trying to run up a down escalator in the sense that if you put in a lot of effort, you can get to the top if you put in less effort, you can get towards the top, not all the way up and so on, but the main thing is if you stop putting an effort, you don't stay where you are, it drags you down quickly and you know, having a new kid, having a bunch of kids, those things really drain your ability to run up the escalator of relationship and to put that kind of effort into it. And so like when you talk about that light up and I'm like, well, how do

[14:06] you maintain that passionate spark, especially with everything going on? I mean, going a weekend away is helpful, but no, it seems like there must be some regular either daily, weekly, monthly things that you guys do to keep it together. I'm putting it on the spot because I'm,

Hilary Duff [14:25] I know I'm trying to think now. I mean, honestly, we haven't been putting too much like specific. I'm setting this time aside for you right now. Like she's six weeks now though, but I'm saying even like before this pregnancy, I think that one of the things is my favorite about Matt is just that his brain is so clever that he just keeps me laughing nonstop and I'm kind of just always waiting to see what he's going to come up with, you know, if it's with his work or some funny take on something or some clever way he sees, you know, this particular topic, like he's a really interesting guy and I just enjoy him and we make sure we have those like late night chats and, you know, I really pay

[15:10] attention to what he does and his work and vice versa. Like he's my number one cheerleader. He thinks I could be president of the United States.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [15:18] I think just about anybody could be president of the United States. Who would want to be president of the United States? I wish you would become president of the United States. I might do a good job actually. I believe you could bring the much needed piece among the divided people of this country. Actually, you have my vote.

Hilary Duff [15:36] Thanks.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [15:37] Yeah, I don't know how you manage it, but you'll find a way. You know, poor kids, a bustling career and three hundred and thirty million people to worry about. You could do it. Yeah, so he keeps it fresh with his creativity and that always keeps it new for you. That's what it sounds like.

Hilary Duff [15:54] That's a good assessment. I have no idea what I bring to the table.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [15:58] Oh, my God, I don't know what you bring to the relationship between the two of you guys, but you have so much great energy and also you have all that also creativity. I bet you see the same thing in each other. I don't know. I'm just guessing. OK, and also, there's another thing like the mom of your kids is like an incredible pedestal. I think he doesn't think that anybody could do it better, which is a very nice way to look at your wife. Yeah, I because we just had Father's Day and I think the contrast between Mother's Day and Father's Day, all the planning that goes into Mother's Day, like a lot of planning as a family, we think about Mother's Day

[16:40] and all the things my wife likes when we make things for her personal things that we make. She likes time by herself. She likes to do something together. She likes, you know, we have to get creative with the presence. It's a lot of planning and it's a huge day. And then sometimes the fathers are like, Oh, my God, it's a Father's Day. And it makes sense. Like, if you think about all the things that mom does to grow a baby, deliver a baby, feed a baby, nurture a baby into toddlerhood and adulthood, and then you think about the male contribution to making babies, it makes sense. I'm surprised we have a day at all.

Hilary Duff [17:17] That's what Matt says. He's always like, when I'm at the end of my pregnancy and I'm just so missed. He's like, oh, my God, it just feels so bad. He's like, I did one thing one time. And I'm like, that's correct. You did one thing one time and it got me here.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [17:33] Right. And then you didn't want to do that thing ever again until after the baby was out.

Hilary Duff [17:40] That's true. That's true only at the end. He wasn't totally tortured. All right.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [17:45] OK, I want to take a break. One more segment, find out about what's coming from Hilary Duff in the future, now that no more kids are coming. And how you're going to take care of your mind, body, and spirit in the post-pregnancy and birth phase of your life. We'll be right back. Welcome back. We're talking to Hilary Duff. And what's next? I know you're taking a little time to be in the cave and really cherish the last moments with the last newborn. What's on the horizon for you?

Hilary Duff [18:23] You know what? I really don't have a plan. And I would love to act like I ever really have a plan, but I don't. And things just, you know, luckily I find ways to work. But I just don't want to worry about it right now. I don't want to think about it. Both my kids are starting new schools in the fall. And then I'm sure after that, once I feel a little bit better in my body, I'll start to search. I'm constantly reading things, whether it be an article or a book. I really want to produce more. And I think that would probably be the best way for me to find whatever new acting project it is that I want to do is to develop it for myself and produce it.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [19:04] Music? Is there going to be more music?

Hilary Duff [19:07] Yeah, I think so. I can't talk about this because every time I do, people are like, what? And then my timeline is there's nothing in place for when I'm going to be actually releasing anything. But I think the music is always there. And it's just like a timing thing and what that looks like for my family. I don't want to blame them for not doing it. But I do have kids and they're at this young, vital stage. And I would never want their life to be screwed up because that's a tough life. You know what I mean? Touring and I want their life to be about them, not about me.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [19:43] I mean, it seems totally fair. Yes, you're not done making music, but you have no immediate plans.

Hilary Duff [19:48] Yeah, sure.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [19:49] Are there things on the professional bucket list?

Hilary Duff [19:52] You know what? I used to be like, I want to win an award by the time I'm 40. I want to work with this person. And I've always wanted to work with a sick director. I don't even know if they're super famous. Just someone that I've connected with on the level of the conversation just draws something incredible out. It's not just me left to my own devices figuring out this character and shooting it weekly or whatever it may be. I just want to work with people I like. I don't want to work with Aspels anymore. I don't want to work with non-team players. I want like…

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [20:28] Wait, Aspels like who?

Hilary Duff [20:31] But isn't that such an approaching 40 mentality? I also don't want to ask a man for a job or try to convince a man that I would be good. You know what I mean? The industry is so weird right now. So I think that it's more about me finding projects that I really believe in and getting it made. So I get to choose who I'm working with and who I cast and who's producing alongside of me and who's directing and that kind of stuff.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [20:57] Anything on the personal bucket list?

Hilary Duff [20:59] More travel.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [21:01] Any place you'd like to go?

Hilary Duff [21:01] We haven't gone to travel in a long time. I've never been to Greece. I want to take the kids to Spain. I haven't been to Italy in probably 10 years. I really want to travel overseas.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [21:12] That sentence made me so hungry. That sentence, Greece, Spain and Italy?

Hilary Duff [21:18] Italy, yeah.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [21:20] I might be pregnant. Probably not.

Hilary Duff [21:22] Impossible to get these kids on a plane though. Matt just did the most incredible thing. And he took the two girls, he took May May and Banks to Boston. His brother lives in Boston. Took them there for the weekend for his daughter's and son's birthday. And I mean, it was less than a 72 hour trip. 12 hours on a plane. Like in one weekend. That's a lot like that. Like he crushed it. I was so proud of him. May May, an hour into the flight, woke up and just barfed all over herself. And he was like, okay.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [21:54] Oh my God.

Hilary Duff [21:55] Okay, so then they went to the bathroom and he just took her sweatshirt off and put it in the trash.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [22:00] Yeah, that's what I would have done. I like the, what? You could've rinsed it in, I don't know.

Hilary Duff [22:05] Anyway, I was not going to like give him a hard time about that. He just took it off and they did carry on. So she had plenty of clothes, thank God, for her to like wear. And then he put her on the toilet to go pee. And she looked down and the toilet is gray. Obviously like in the lavatories, in the bathroom. And she had never seen a gray toilet before. So she flung herself mid pee off the toilet. Didn't like it. Peed all over herself, peed all over him. And she's like, it's gray. It's gray. And he's like, what? What's gray? What's gray? Oh my God. He's like, you're never gonna believe what's happening to me right now. And then have you seen the craze on TikTok

[22:52] that's like a snackle box? It's a tackle box, but you put snacks in all the individual compartments.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [22:58] No.

Hilary Duff [22:59] So I made those for them for the airplane. And he's like two hours into the flight, May's snackle box goes flying and just snacks everywhere.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [23:08] Oh man, snackle box, that's cute. I'm flying this week. I'm gonna ask my wife to make me a snackle box. An adult snackle box. Yeah, a dad snackle box. Okay, the toll, let's talk about the toll. It's gotta be that being pregnant, giving birth, feeding baby, rinse and repeat three more times, it takes toll on your body.

Hilary Duff [23:35] Yes.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [23:36] What kind of toll has it taken on your body and do you have a plan for, I don't know, getting back. A plan to put it all back together.

Hilary Duff [23:47] Yeah. I mean, Humpty Dumpty. All the king's horses and all the king's men. Maybe it's the queen's horses and the queen's women. You know what? I started to work out, I started working out a little bit too early this time, but I was just like needing to go. And it's a slow and steady kind of jam, you know? I'm not the person that like drops weight when I'm nursing, which sucks. Some people just like, it falls off of them. And I kind of just make like enough milk to feed my babies. And I don't have freezers filled with milk like some girls do. And I feel like eating is a full-time job to keep up my milk supply right now. It's insane. It's so hard.

[24:27] And I feel like all we do in this house is like pack and cook and make snacks and food and lunches and rinse, repeat over and over again. And then throw in like me trying to do that and be really healthy and strategic about like the foods that I'm putting in my body. Super hard. Also, I don't like being told what to do. So the second someone's like, oh, don't eat that. I'm like, I'm gonna go eat that.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [24:49] Putting that in my snackle box.

Hilary Duff [24:51] Putting it in my snackle box. But it's just what it is. My body's different this time around for sure. I told you I went on a sourdough journey.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [25:01] Oh yeah.

Hilary Duff [25:02] During this pregnancy, which was super fun. And I wouldn't trade it for anything because I can like gift amazing loaves of bread to people now. And it was a very fun like trait to learn and perfect. But yeah, I mean, I have a lot of work to do. And sometimes I just worked out today really hard and I was like, I feel like I have so, I'm really starting at ground zero and I've got a lot of work to do. It sucks, but you just gotta do it.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [25:27] What kind of workouts?

Hilary Duff [25:28] High intensity and then like compound movements. So you're doing like two things at once. Weights, I like weights. Obviously cardio, trying to get the weight off, you know?

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [25:39] Yeah. You know, after we had our first baby, my wife insisted on getting pregnant again before I lost the weight from the first one.

Hilary Duff [25:50] Your wife would tell me a trick or two. I just gave up.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [25:53] It was so tiny. I know, she is super tiny and she cooks for all of us madly, insane amounts of delicious food. And I don't know, I'm the only one who eats it. What is your grocery bill like with all of your kids?

Hilary Duff [26:09] It's very high.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [26:09] And then like Shabbat dinners and all of that. Yeah, we have this philosophy about Shabbat that any money that you put into Shabbat will come back to you. To celebrate Shabbat will always come back to you.

Hilary Duff [26:20] Got it, so they're pricey dinners.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [26:22] Yeah, we don't skimp on Shabbat, but yeah, I mean, it's even worse now with Instacart because you're just like, oh, I need these three items. Oh, I need a 35-pound minimum. We just always have cars pulling up, dropping off groceries, and it just adds up so quickly you don't even realize it because you're just going in the app.

Hilary Duff [26:37] I don't even wanna know what we spend on like Postmates and stuff. Sometimes we want stuff from different places and we're like, I worked hard today, I want that. And he's like, well, I want that. I'm like, great, let's do it.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [26:50] Yeah, I have one vegetarian. I have one who loves all the steak and meat and heavy foods like that and some dessert people in our family. So yeah, it's hard if we order out. We can never go out because nobody wants to go to the same place either. So we're always ordering in from multiple places. But you're right, the food bill is with a full house right now, especially everything's so expensive. And you have all teenagers. They're like starving all the time. Right, they start off never wanting to go to sleep and they end up never wanting to wake up. They start off like not really eating, like you gotta force them to get to the table and then they end up not eating ever.

[27:31] I mean, it's like they realize, oh man, I should have slept and eaten when I was younger and then they go to make up for lost time. On the bath now. That's how it feels. Yeah, there's that. What do you do for your own self-care outside of exercise?

Hilary Duff [27:47] I love to take a bath. I love to walk or hike with a friend. I'm not into meditating. I've tried to force myself to meditate so many times. I'm getting better at trying to take a nap. And honestly, like people fill my cup, like a friend, a phone call, hanging out with Matt, you know, alone. We used to play tennis. I really can't wait to get back into tennis.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [28:12] No pickleball?

Hilary Duff [28:13] No, I think pickleball is like cheater's tennis.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [28:16] That's why I like it.

Hilary Duff [28:18] I'm not saying I wouldn't like it. It's just that I picked up tennis late in life and now I'm like, I don't know. I'm a tennis person. It's just like being a skier or a snowboarder. You're one or the other.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [28:28] I ski and snowboard, but only on video games.

Hilary Duff [28:32] That's acceptable.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [28:35] And I'm a double cheater. I play pickleball on video games.

Hilary Duff [28:38] Really?

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [28:39] Yeah, if I have to get off the couch.

Hilary Duff [28:40] Is that fun?

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [28:41] I mean, it's fun because the kids like it.

Hilary Duff [28:43] So I can't get into gaming. Matt does, thank God, he'll game with Luca. They just play FIFA for like hours and hours and hours.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [28:50] You play FIFA? They don't play a lot and I definitely don't play a lot. I can never figure out how the controls work.

Hilary Duff [28:56] Me neither. That's why I'm like, I'm not doing it. I'm not starting now.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [29:00] Yeah. When I was a kid, we had one stick and one button. It was Atari. And it was very easy to figure out. Now there's like 18 buttons and joysticks and can't. I know. I miss the simple time of like Super Mario. That's it. I aged out. Donkey Kong, you know, throw the bell.

Hilary Duff [29:16] Donkey Kong was sick. Yeah. I like to shop. I like to, you know, mindlessly scroll a little bit. I like to read. When I have both my hands, probably when I stop nursing, I'll probably get back into crocheting. I can like crochet and knit. I have some hobbies.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [29:33] That's your meditation.

Hilary Duff [29:35] Yeah.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [29:36] Are you a little ADD?

Hilary Duff [29:37] I think that I'm a little ADD, but I don't think I need to be like medicated for it, but I think I have to have so many things going on at once to be, you know.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [29:45] That's a sign. That's a sign of it. I know I'm ADD because my computer always has 20 windows tabs open. I'm jumping back and forth between them. I can never, two minutes after rebooting, I got nine tabs open.

Hilary Duff [29:57] Yeah. But also ADD, it's hard to meditate when your brain is constantly moving forward.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [30:03] I really have a hard time meditating.

Hilary Duff [30:05] But crocheting-

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [30:06] I tend to meditate when I'm like nervous or scared about something, but I feel like that's more praying, to be honest.

Hilary Duff [30:12] Like it- Which is also meditation.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [30:15] Yeah.

Hilary Duff [30:15] There is meditation.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [30:16] And you know who crochets is Russell Crowe.

Hilary Duff [30:20] What?

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [30:21] Yeah. On set, like between takes and things. So you find crocheting to like clear his mind. It's the repetitive nature of the counting the stitches, that's your meditation. It's just a different kind of meditation. It's the Hilary Duff pray and crochet method. New business idea. No, in the tub, is it more of listening to music? Is it reading book? Is it just burning candles? It's- Reminding you of your births.

Hilary Duff [30:49] No. That's so funny. Never once have I gotten in a bathtub and been like, I remember my birth. It's usually listening to like a book on tape and sometimes I'll light a candle. I kind of light a candle every day in my house. Like I like to set the cozy tones around here and make it like my space that smells like what I want it to smell like and feel like. And I get a lot of joy for like decorating and reorganizing things in my house or moving something. It drives Matt crazy. He could live with our house the way it is until we're 80 years old. If I move a chair, he's like, what if I had to come in at three o'clock in the morning and went to sit down and then that chair just wasn't there.

[31:31] And I'm like, Mia, what if? Me, like, all on the floor. I don't know what to tell you.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [31:36] So there used to be a little bit of country and a little bit of rock and roll. And now there's a little bit of ADD and a little bit of OCD.

Hilary Duff [31:42] Uh-huh, 110%.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [31:44] Yeah, that's a good combination though. You'll have to figure out like which zodiacs work together, which neuroses work together.

Hilary Duff [31:50] We're figuring it out for sure. And I definitely like to push his boundaries of, where the comforts can be brought in just a little bit.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [32:00] I do not like change either, but like your home. First of all, everyone has a character. Like when you walk into it, you feel like that room, if that makes any sense. You know what I'm saying? Like, living room, you feel like living room nature. You walk into any room just gives you immediately, you have feels based on how you set up that room.

Hilary Duff [32:20] That's so nice. I think that you would walk in and be like, whoa, whose house is this? I think since you've been here, I've totally changed it.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [32:26] Right, but I would want to go on another tour. I mean, it's probably amazing and all new season of amazing that. Yeah, just such character. Everyone has character and things that I would be like, who would ever think to get that or do that or have that? I don't know. And I try to do it sometimes either at the office or at the house and I need to call you next time.

Hilary Duff [32:47] You can call me anytime. I love to spend other people's money and give advice about interiors.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [32:52] Awesome, win-win. Okay, I asked a lot of questions and you played ball with everything. I appreciate you as always. Is there anything, any parting thoughts about this whole journey closing? You're closing a chapter and opening a new one.

Hilary Duff [33:06] You know what? There's a few things that I want to do that I didn't do last time, I guess, birth-wise. Like, I've never done a closing of the bones ceremony.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [33:15] Oh yeah.

Hilary Duff [33:16] Do you have clients that do that?

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [33:18] I have clients that do it.

Hilary Duff [33:19] Have you ever been to a closing of the bones ceremony? So it's just like the thought behind it is like, taking that moment to appreciate your body expanding for you and kind of closing that chapter. It's super emotional to think about never, I'm thrilled to never be pregnant again. And then there's so many crevices of corners of my mind and my body and my just expansion process that you just can't compare to anything else in life. You can't get that experience anywhere else. So it's very hard thing to close the door on, and then also you love your children so much that you're like, okay, it's just over. And of course, they're enough and this is it.

[34:01] And there's so much as they grow to keep experiencing and loving and taking in. But it's just like, I don't know, it's a crazy thing to seriously close that chapter. But I look forward to spending more time on myself and knowing that pregnancy is behind me.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [34:20] I think that every chapter, there's so many of them that open a new chapter. And then at the same time, a chapter down the road is closing, a new one open, one will close. I mean, when my first kid moved out of the house, graduated high school and moved out. Gosh, that's so hard to think about. The most intense thing. And I had fear, I had sadness, I had everything. And also a little regret, that's I think, everyone tells you it goes so fast, you already see it's going so fast. But at that moment, it's like, wow, it went lightning speed. Like it just went, like they're out, they're moving out, they're flying on their own. And it went lightning speed.

[35:02] If I had a regret, if I can go back and do things differently. And I'm probably moving, people say this is what I've just prioritized. In a moment, you feel like I have to take this job, I have to take this thing, I have to whatever. And my kids will be there, my kids will be there, my kids will be there. And then all of a sudden, they're not there anymore. And then you have all the time in the world to do whatever you want to, but you can't be with them as little kids anymore. But I will say, after a few months of him moving out of the house, I realized that this new chapter is amazing. I mean, we actually talk more now that he's not home than we heard it when he was here.

[35:39] And the depth of the relationship has grown on a whole new level. And he's an adult, relating to an adult child, his offspring, it's just like an incredible thing. And I definitely miss having him in the house all the time and being able to see him and hug him and hang out with him in person. But that chapter closed and there's this new chapter that's incredible too. And I really remember feeling that every step along the way when they were done with the infancy, when they were done with the toddler, when they were going into grade school, middle school, high school. So this has to be a big one though, one that I can't personally relate to, I think as a woman being done

[36:19] with the reproductive part of life.

Hilary Duff [36:21] I mean, I totally agree with what you're saying. And I know it not as well as you, but I know it just with Luca, where the conversations that we have are so impactful. I just wanna try to remember them forever. Or the things that he's teaching me, just the tables start to turn a little bit and it's so cool. You see the work that you've put in, but you also see what they add, and how their mind sees it or whatever. And I'm sure that just continues to blow your mind as they get older and older and more independent. And then even with Banks, today she went to a new school and she did summer camp at that school. And she came and she just downloaded

[36:59] all the information to me. It was so cool to see her excitement and the things that make her tick. And it's totally different than what it's like with Maymay or with this baby. But yeah, the reproductive part is weird because it's just like in our bodies to do that. So you're just like, okay, well, we're not gonna do that anymore. Right, but there's other cool things to do with your body now.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [37:24] Totally.

Hilary Duff [37:24] I gotta whip it into shape.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [37:28] All right. Well, as always, I appreciate you coming here and sharing your stories, your journeys, your real life insights. I've said it before, you're just a great storyteller and I love talking to you and our audience loves listening to you. So thanks for being here.

Hilary Duff [37:45] Well, you know what? I love you. You know how much I care about you. And I love that I have these memories documented like so shortly after birth. I need to go listen to my after birth stories because you truly, truly forget.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [37:57] Yeah, actually some people who record right after they have the baby about a birth story will listen to it three or four months later and not remember 80% of the details that they talk about in there. It's crazy how much you forget from there. I think that's what pregnancy brain might be about really. It's the design. It is the design.

Hilary Duff [38:18] You do it again. Yeah. I mean, one thing that I forgot to mention during this one was like, this was definitely my most painful birth because there was no easing into it, right? Like my contractions came on fast. I was literally in active labor from the get-go and I just remember thinking like, okay, I just need every single one of my contractions to work for me. I'm just going and I'm trusting the process. Like she's showing up, I'm going, here we go. Like just go. And it was pretty, pretty painful. I think maybe my most painful birth. And then afterwards, right afterwards, I'm just looking at her face and I'm like so filled with like happiness

[38:59] and love and like obsession. And it's crazy that those two things like in natural birth can exist within mere seconds of each other. Seconds apart.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [39:09] Yeah. Seconds. It's unbelievable. I always felt like that if I can show you the crystal ball of what this is gonna look like whenever we get there.

Hilary Duff [39:16] Yes, I try to explain that to people and it's really hard because the fear is so big around childbirth and labor. And I understand it sucks. It is a big job to take on, but just like if you could show the crystal ball and the feelings that you have, just how those things can exist in a minute are crazy. Those two feelings. That's life.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [39:38] Yeah. Well, good luck with all the things.

Hilary Duff [39:43] Thanks.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [39:44] We got to hang out at some point.

Hilary Duff [39:45] I can't have another baby, so.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [39:48] Yeah, we can still chat about stuff. I'm sure you'll have interesting things going on.

Hilary Duff [39:53] Thank you so much. You're the best. Yeah, at some point I'm gonna be interesting again.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [39:58] Oh, you're always interesting, but at some point we'll have what to talk about. And you always have a seat on this platform.

Hilary Duff [40:06] Thank you.

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [40:07] Thanks, Hillary. Have a wonderful night with your sweet little accessory on your shoulder. Oh God, the yummy ass. That mohawk is crazy.

Hilary Duff [40:17] It came out with this mohawk. It's nuts, right?

Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [40:21] So beautiful. All right. At home, thanks for listening to the Informed Pregnancy Podcast. For more pregnancy and parenting information, visit us online at informedpregnancy.com.

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