December 17, 2025 · 41 minutes · Episode 490
About this episode
International songwriting couple Amanda Nordelius and John Russell discuss their creative and home lives, including how they met on stage at Universal Studios and a surprising home breech birth.
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Key quotes
“And I think my piano knew every secret that I didn't tell anybody else. And it was my therapist and it was my best friend.”
“it doesn't have to be this way. Like, it doesn't have to be a scary thing.”
“we felt the most peace we'd felt in the entire pregnancy.”
“depending on where I put my mind or how much I relaxed my body, the feeling of the contractions completely changed.”
“And we marched Amanda from the shower to our bedroom. Like she was coming out for her like boxing entrance.”
Related episodes
- Ep. 495 Postpartum with Amanda Nordelius & John Russell
- Ep. 514 Before Baby #4 with Kara Sutton
- Ep. 500 The Unexpected with Dr. Elliot Berlin Part 1
- Ep. 493 In Conversation with Esther Friedman Schwartz
Transcript
AI-generated transcript with speaker labels — may contain errors, especially names and medical terms. Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC appears in blue; Amanda Nordelius & John Russell in orange.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [0:00] My guests today are an international songwriting couple splitting their time between Los Angeles and Stockholm. Together, they've built creative and family lives that blend two music cultures, two languages, and now, two new parents' perspectives. They'll share how they met on stage at Universal Studios, what it's like collaborating in work and love, and the surprising turn their story takes with a home-breach birth they hadn't planned for. I'm Pregnancy Focus Chiropractor Dr. Elliott Berlin, and you're listening to the Informed Pregnancy Podcast. Amanda Nordelius and John Russell, welcome to the podcast.
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [0:49] Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for having us. From Sweden.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [0:53] Yeah, all the way on the other side of the world right now. I was just saying before, you guys have the best energy and I still feel it coming through the room as if you're in here with me. Even though the sun is coming up here and it must be going down there at the
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [1:07] same time. That's why they showed up here today. Yeah, that's true.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [1:10] Oh, it's a white night?
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [1:11] Darkness. I mean, it's about three hours of light a day.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [1:15] Oh, you just have dark all the time.
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [1:17] Yeah. We make up for it in the summer, but it's pretty rough in the winter.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [1:22] Well, it's coming up over here so I can try to shine a little bit your way.
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [1:26] Thank you.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [1:27] We have so much to talk about. Let's start at the beginning with your background. John, you grew up in Detroit as a pastor's kid. What was that like?
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [1:37] Oh, gosh. Well, you know, it's interesting. It has its definite, you know, pros and cons. I joke with people saying I was indoctrinated with religion from birth because my newborn baby picture, which is about me at 24 hours old, I'm holding a little Bible picture that says the little Bible, you know, exactly, precisely. And so I had to, you know, navigate finding out what religion means to me and what God means to me on my own terms, because, you know, you're just told this is what we believe and this is the thing to believe and this is what we do. And, you know, there's a lot of really deep concepts that are hard for a kid to understand. It's hard for adults to understand.
[2:30] Hard for adults to understand. So just kind of sifting through those and, you know, trying to keep the really good things that I learned and not keep the things that were holding me back, I would say.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [2:41] Holding you back. So you're in music, you're a musician, but you considered law at some point. What was the journey like?
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [2:51] That was kind of the plan was I wanted to be a lawyer. There was some sort of like justice bone that I had that just couldn't let injustice pass me by without standing up and saying something about it. So it felt like that was a natural course.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [3:05] But that seems like a biblical concept.
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [3:08] Yeah. Right. Exactly. I think so. I think it might have had something to do with that. But as I became a teenager and started feeling feelings, I decided, you know, like songwriting and music was really where I felt the most passion and love. At that point, did you have formal training? So not exactly. I grew up playing in church, you know, which is honestly amazing training, especially when you're playing with like gospel musicians who are some of the best in the world. And you kind of just show up, you know, maybe a guest shows up with music and they're just like, all right, here's my set list. Learn how to play it now. Wow. And so it's really great.
[3:45] Yeah. Training.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [3:46] I feel like some incredibly soulful musicians start in church.
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [3:50] They do. Yeah. Like, you know, I had the opportunity to have a close relationship with John Legend and I know he started in church as well. Yeah. Ironically, I also have a short relationship with John Legend. Look at this. He shared the same. Yeah. And you could hear it when he sings. Like you can feel that church energy come out of him. Exactly. Yeah. It's something really special about it. Undeniable.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [4:16] So you do have that kind of musical background and then that took over your
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [4:20] feelings for law. Yeah, it did. Yeah. I think I was just, you know, I found that music and writing was how I processed life. And I think my piano knew every secret that I didn't tell anybody else. And it was my therapist and it was my best friend. And I think that I just learned, like, well, this is kind of how I want to live. I want to do this.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [4:44] I don't want to make this about me, but my parents tried to get me and I'm a little ADD and I'm also I can play by ear. So anytime I could figure out how the melody was supposed to go, I just play it. And I couldn't look at those little squiggles and dots on the page anymore. Right. No. So I could never really progress in my lessons. But I did do a lot of playing on my own and it was definitely my therapy. And I never thought about the way you just said that about your piano, you know, being the one who knows everything and helps you process.
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [5:19] Yeah, yeah, we've got a lot of tears together.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [5:23] Something with piano lessons that can be so boring for some reasons,
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [5:26] like classic ill training with piano could be pretty challenging.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [5:30] I should have gone to church.
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [5:32] You should have gone to church, that's right.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [5:34] Exactly. So, Amanda, your story starts in a really different place, a small island life outside of Stockholm. How did you get involved in songwriting, also a musician?
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [5:45] I mean, I was just always a part of my life, I guess. Just having music instruments at home and, you know, I think Sweden as a culture, you know, a lot of our TV shows here are, you know, revolves around music in different ways, music competitions and songwriting competitions. And, you know, I think I just grew up loving music and art of all forms and just started to write, I think, as like a kid at, you know, six or seven years old. And that was just always a part of my life. I've never considered law. No, but I actually wanted to become an accountant for a while. And I think for me, it was like, I'm just going to do music for fancies in my teenage years, and then I will get serious, you
[6:29] know, so a little similar to John. Like I had a different idea of a job and then I just got stuck and I never, you know, I never became an accountant.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [6:37] Stuck. So, I mean, your career sort of took off.
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [6:42] Yeah, and I do the admin for me and John for our company.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [6:45] So I guess I do get to do a little bit of that. Some accounting there, too. How did you progress in your music career from writing songs at home in a small island to where it led?
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [7:00] Yeah, I mean, I went to songwriting school for a couple of years and then I became part of this girl band in Sweden. And very long story short, we just ended up in Los Angeles with the management over there. And then I just stayed, you know, for about, yeah, I mean, eight years or nine years.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [7:22] You just loved it so much.
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [7:23] I just loved it. It was just Los Angeles had a very different music scene at the time. And Stockholm, there was like no places to really play live. So it felt natural to move to a place where we could actually perform. And, you know, yeah, just be sharing our music with people like, you know, face to face.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [7:41] I have two questions for you guys. Number one, I always wonder, lyrics first or melody first, or does it not have to pick?
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [7:51] For me, it's melody for sure. Yeah. But that's just me. I go both ways. So a lot of times when we're writing together or with other people, we'll go melody first and then fill in the lyrics. But a lot of times, sometimes like a certain phrase will just evoke a certain melody in your brain. You know, like, ain't no sunshine when she's gone. It just feels like that melody is the right way to sing those words. So it goes both ways. Yeah, for me.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [8:22] I was afraid you were going to say that. So I'm not sure what to do when I get home tonight. OK. The second question is, in your formative music years, did you have each of your inspirations that kind of inspired you?
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [8:37] I mean, so much. I don't even know where to begin. Yeah. But I mean, I'm very inspired by, I think, actually outside of music. I think I'm very inspired by modern art. And I think that visual art really actually inspired me musically. Like more than what music inspires me musically at times. Yeah. I love to consume all the other art forms to be inspired musically. If I listen to music, I kind of feel like overwhelmed. I'm like, no, I can't. I barely listen to music. Yeah. Just a very strange trait. For a songwriter. Yeah. I almost never go to the carparker. OK, then that's not true. I do all the time. I had a very rich, I would say, musical experience at home.
[9:27] We listened to a lot of Motown, obviously. We listened to a lot of great classics with Stevie Wonder, Aretha Franklin, Marvin Gaye. Seemingly Bill Withers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. Yes. So that was a great foundation. As I got older, I was a bit of an emo kid in high school. So I love the rock scene and all of those things. And yeah, I feel like I have a very diverse palette that just kind of developed over the scope of my life. And now I put all of those things into one place. Which is just like, yeah, which is me, I suppose. Which is the goal.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [10:08] So you're both from Los Angeles, and music kind of brings you together at Universal Studios. What's the story?
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [10:15] I mean, we were both, they had this program where you were like a hired street performer, basically. And we were both on the program. But you never play, I mean, yeah, I guess you play at the same time but at different spots. So even if you are playing at the same time, you don't really see each other because you're both playing. But then they had this anniversary show where everyone on the program came together and got to meet and hang out and play on the main stage at CityWalk. And we met in the green room for the first time. And we knew of each other, but not really met. I think it was after my set before your set. And we met in the green room,
[10:56] and it was love at first sight. I think you were eating pizza and lounging on your friend. I love how you don't remember what I was wearing, but you remember what I was eating. Yes, yes, yes. You were wearing a really cool jacket. I do remember, as you were always super stylish. My crushes growing up were Cyndi Lauper and Hayley Williams. So Amanda was very much like that kind of alt girl, you know, rock and roll. I was very lucky that that was your preference. Funky style. I thought I was too emo for him, so I'm very, yeah. Also, we both thought like each other were gay when we first met, so we didn't even know that this was going to develop into anything.
[11:42] But the spark was there regardless, yeah. It was, it truly was.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [11:47] Well, I think everyone should meet in the green room. It's so relaxing. What a great way to start a new journey. And then, you know, not too long ago, your journey took a turn towards parenthood. Why don't we take a quick break and when we come back, we'll find out what that was like. Welcome back. Welcome to Amanda and John. Okay, so the green room is where everything starts for you guys. Turns out you're not gay and you like each other. And you blend so many things together, including career, you start to work together. But then, you somehow end up having a baby together. Was that a conscious choice to?
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [12:38] Yeah, it's hard to say, yeah. I think we had just been together for like a month when we said we wanted to have kids for the first time. So it was very much a dream that had been with us for like seven years. Right. But I mean, I think we just both felt like we wanted to wait and you know, the timing. It was a conscious choice to engage in intimacy and not have birth control. So it was also- But we wanted the universe to like, you know, decide. It was one of those things where like, it'll happen when it's meant to happen. And it did, it happened at the perfect time.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [13:12] Does not have birth control, meaning not even thinking about timing or things like that?
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [13:18] We were tracking the timing, actually. No, we knew, well, not after we decided to- The natural cycles? Yeah, but we weren't tracking it in terms of this is the week, so we should be intimate this week.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [13:34] Oh, right, right, right, right.
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [13:35] We were aware of like my cycle over the years, but we weren't like aiming, if that makes sense, I think that would very much happen sooner or later. If we were trying and it wouldn't be successful, I think we would start to be more conscious about that. But it was also nice to just let the first year be kind of like, you didn't want to be too aware of it because it just felt, you know, freeing to not have to be.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [14:00] So how soon after you get together are you choosing to not prevent a pregnancy and how long after that until you're pregnant?
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [14:11] Was it six years? Yeah. Yeah, six years, five, six years. Yeah, and then four months until you get pregnant. Yeah, yeah, pretty good.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [14:19] Boom, what was it like finding out?
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [14:23] It was so shocking, it was so strange because we had three pregnancy tests, they were all positive and- Nobody has one, I don't know why. John was taking a nap. Well, it's this tricky thing with natural cycles where you're supposed to get your period on a certain day, but if you don't get it that day, it just, it moves till, oh, it's coming tomorrow. And if it doesn't show up that day, it will move again and be like, oh, it's coming tomorrow. So like, I looked at the app and every day when my period didn't show up, it said, it's supposed to come tomorrow. So I thought, oh, I must be going crazy. It's not supposed to come today, it's supposed to come tomorrow.
[15:03] Like it took me three days until I realized the app is just moving this little circle that says I'm getting my period so my period is actually late. And that's what I was like, should go and get a pregnancy test. Or three. Or three. And John was napping and I was like, is this where you should film this? Like, should we do a thing? I mean, it feels for us, but then it feels kind of weird because if you're not pregnant, it just feels a little anti-climatic. So we were like, how should we do this? This is the last second of our life that if we find out we're pregnant, this is the last time we will ever not be parents, consciously, I guess. Yeah, when I saw the test,
[15:39] I looked at him and I was like, so yeah, what does this mean? We even called your family. All of a sudden, now we're just pregnant. This is how this works. Like you just aren't pregnant and then you are. Like it was mind boggling that, you know. We called your family or your brother and my sister-in-law and we were like, what should we do? Should we view this as we are pregnant? Or should we wait a couple of weeks and they're like, you are pregnant. You should think that you are pregnant.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [16:08] Right. And here you are. At that point, when you found out you were pregnant, did you have a vision on how you wanted pregnancy to be or how you wanted birth to be, what you wanted to do or not do?
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [16:24] No, not at all. I think you- At least not me. No. I don't know when like the, I guess those thoughts developed more, but I know there was just a little bit of an expectation of how things would go just because of like your family history.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [16:39] What's the family history?
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [16:41] Well, so it's just basically I was a C-section baby and my sister as well. And then my dad was and John was. So I don't have a lot of, or at the time I did not have a lot of mom friends. So I didn't have a lot of experience or just knowledge about any other birth than C-section. So I think in a way I felt like that was how it was gonna be for me too. Like it was just felt like that's just the way. And in that way, I almost felt like I don't really need to educate myself on anything else. I mean, it was just such a natural thought that that's how it's gonna be. So it didn't feel weird.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [17:21] Were you all cesarean like electively
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [17:24] or were there specific reasons? No, they were all- I was the elective. Oh, you were, yeah. Cause you were the third. Yeah. You were the third cesarean? Yeah.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [17:35] That seems like a sort of, it could be an album. Pfft. Genius.
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [17:42] Sorry.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [17:43] You're hired, you're a hired guy now.
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [17:45] Consulting on my side.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [17:48] Okay, so you were elective and then-
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [17:50] No, but I was breech.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [17:51] Oh, you were breech. Oh, you were in Sweden? They don't do breech birth?
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [17:55] They do, but I was frank and also my water broke. I don't remember. I've asked about this so many times during my pregnancy.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [18:05] I wouldn't expect you to remember.
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [18:07] But it is basically, it was an emergency C-section.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [18:10] Oh, got it. You're still kind of frank.
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [18:14] Yeah, definitely, definitely.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [18:16] It left an impression. Okay, so like cesarean birth was not something foreign to you?
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [18:22] No, it was definitely not. And I think in general, I've been very scared and fearful around birth. Both C-section and natural birth. I just thought it was a scary thing. I was a little scared about being pregnant. So I think a lot of it, I really knew I wanted kids. So I think I thought, I'll just take it day by day. But I didn't necessarily want to maybe dream so much about it. And it felt like, yeah, I just felt a little scary to do so.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [18:49] I don't know if pregnancy changed you or you hide it really well. But by the time I met you, you were knee deep into pregnancy and you exude bad ass confidence like I could do anything. So when you're talking about the fear of this, fear of that, I just would never have known.
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [19:08] No, I really changed. The third trimester completely changed me. We were in Sweden. I remember even the first trimester, my friend called me and she's like, do you have a doula yet? Do you have this? All the good ones go really fast. And I was like, I don't even wanna think about it. John booked all the, what do you call it? The Swedish brain here, like the checkups, the ultrasounds, all those things John booked. There were no, nobody had your number. Nobody even had my number. I was talking to everyone on your behalf. Yeah. People maybe thought we had a really strange dynamic in our relationship. But I really just didn't wanna really, I don't know why,
[19:51] it just made me very anxious. So John dealt with all of it. But then when we arrived in LA for my third trimester, I just knew I wanted to have the baby in Los Angeles. And I felt like I would find the right people. And finally third trimester, I was like, now I'm ready to actually be present, face this fear head on, find the right people, start to read the books, start to understand what birth is like. I was ready to get my fingers in the dirt. And I think that's when we met. I was just a different person in the third trimester.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [20:24] I guess it's funny that you say head on, but we'll talk about that soon. So up until the third trimester, you're roughly in the back of your mind just planning to have a cesarean birth, just scheduled. What changed in the third trimester?
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [20:40] Well, so we met the doula that we decided to hire. Right. Our plan kind of before that was we were with kind of a group pregnancy situation, which was really awesome support. But their whole like kind of care plan was like, you come here, you know, every two weeks and then every one week in the third trimester, and we'll do a little checkup and then we're gonna send you to St. John's where you'll meet your doctor and then that's where you'll give birth. So it's like. It's not the most common model here. Right, yeah. So we told our doula about it and she was like, so you're not gonna have any sort of relationship with your doctor before you like give birth?
[21:25] Like, no, we don't know them. She was like, that's a little weird in my opinion. I think you guys would really benefit from like building a relationship and hopefully, you know, like talking to a doctor about, you know, what options you have and them getting to know you to help your birth experience. So she recommended a doctor. We took that first recommendation, not knowing anything about the doctor except for that they were recommended by our doula. Sure, we recommended a few actually, but we just went. We just took the first recommendation.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [22:00] And so how did that change the vision?
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [22:04] I think it was just that doctor, like as we were talking and I was sharing that I had my fear around birth and she was just pointing out, like she was just asking me very straight on, like, why are you scared? What is scary about hospitals? What freaks you out about this? And like, as I started to talk about it, she made me feel like, I mean, in a good way, she made me feel like, how do I say this the right way? She made me feel like it wasn't normal. Like, obviously it's very normal to feel like I do, but she made me feel like you don't have to, it doesn't have to be this way. Like, it doesn't have to be a scary thing. And maybe it's just whoever says it to you
[22:41] in the right time and place, but it just really, how she was approaching me was just speaking to a deeper part of me where I realized I just got perspective on my situation that I'm like, I'm just carrying this story. Like, this is how it's gonna go and that's just it. Like, and something in our conversation made me realize that there might be another way. And maybe I should start to like plan for that and I'm there to like dream about it, I guess.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [23:08] Did you get excited about birth?
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [23:10] Yeah, I think I did. And I want to add too that I got a book about hypnobirthing from a friend in Sweden and that also kind of sparked some kind of, you know, deeper like earth woman in me. Like, it felt like I was starting to connect with like the physical body and like process.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [23:29] Okay, that's the Amanda I met.
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [23:31] Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I became a nerd kind of about it. But it made everything make sense. Like, there was so much mystery wrapped around giving birth and what it would be like, and you know, it is kind of this like cold medical procedure where you go to a place that you're supposed to go to when something's wrong with you to have a baby. So we had read through this book and it was talking about how birth is like the most natural physiological process for humans to do. Like, your body is made for it. Your body knows how to do it. Your body like needs to relax into it, you know. It almost feels like labor is a misnomer at times because of how important it is for the body
[24:16] to like be in a state of relaxation and peace and, you know, how important that is for oxytocin and everything to, you know, help the process along. So it really just like, everything started clicking, I think, after we started getting into that and like, oh, okay, this makes sense now. Like, nothing was really speaking to us before and then that made everything make sense. Yeah.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [24:40] So it sounds like things were really changing for you in your perspective and from a fear of birth to an excitement about birth and like your plan for that scheduled C-section was going to change. I can't wait to hear what actually happened. We're gonna take a quick break and we'll be right back.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [25:07] Welcome back. We're talking to Amanda Nordelius and John Russell. Okay, so scheduled C-section changes. What was the vision, regardless of how it turned out, what was the vision after you had sort of met this new doctor and doula and had a change in perspective? What did the ideal birth look like for you at that point?
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [25:28] It was still a hospital birth. I think I had, you know, when people shared home birth or birth center stories, there was something in me that was like very curious and excited, but I didn't maybe listen to that voice because I thought that's for other people, not for us and definitely not for our first time, you know, birth. But very, very close or very soon, we found out that our daughter was breech. So immediately I started to get kind of fearful again and felt like, you know, what are my options? Not actually knowing that in Sweden, we do breech birth, ironically. I had left the country that actually do those things.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [26:08] So I was a little surprised when you said you were born because of breech, because Sweden's one of the places that still does it. Globally, there's not that much going on breech wise.
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [26:19] Right. And we were just uneducated. So I didn't even know we did that until after birth when I told my family and they were like, Sweden also do that. You know that, right? But I still feel like I was supposed to find, you know, everyone on the journey that I was, you know, you and amongst so many others that really helped us, you know, sculpt our birth story. Like the way that we met you, the way I think is because the medical professionals and people we had on our team, beside our doctor, I think everyone was trying to help us to get the baby to flip, you know, to be head down. And so we did all the yoga poses. We did all the, you know, Spinning babies.
[27:02] All the exercises and everything. It's the best journey. Yes, we came to Dr. Berlin. Which was the best ever. I mean, regardless of spinning the baby or not, it was just the best treatment that I've ever received.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [27:18] Amazing. Thank you, I'm so glad.
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [27:21] And yeah, our little girl didn't want to flip. And I could feel, like I could sense that she didn't want to move. She's a rebellious alt girl like her mom. She wants to do things her way. And no matter what we did playing music or shining flashlights toward, you know, at the bottom of like the womb or whatever, nothing was going to spin her around.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [27:47] Well, I hope she came out wearing a cool jacket.
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [27:50] She came out with a unique haircut. That's for sure.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [27:54] That's awesome.
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [27:55] But yeah, so we just had to like, we had to start to dream about a possibility to do a natural birth breach. And we were just lucky that the doctor that we had hired was knowledgeable in that and experienced in that. I mean, it's crazy that we had basically no plan. And then we took the first recommendation for a doula. That doctor happened to be-
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [28:17] For a doctor, you mean?
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [28:19] For the doctor. And that doctor happened to be maybe the only doctor in Southern California or I don't know how far. That does breach birth and at home. And we had no idea when we hired the doctor. And we also didn't know that our daughter was breached. Right. So it was just like- We were very lucky. The serendipity of everything falling into place was a miracle, honestly. We shared it with her. We said, we have a breached baby. How do you feel about it? And she was the only one who was like, okay, I mean, nothing has to change. Like, she was just unbothered.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [28:51] I know that you said during your postpartum phase, which we'll get to in a moment, you did watch a lot of Lord of the Rings. And this is sort of feeling like a Frodo one ring moment here, this journey, an episode. How did the birth actually unfold?
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [29:05] So I had asked my doctor if I was allowed to choose in the moment of my birth, if I wanted to go to the hospital or stay at home. And she had said, yes, we can just feel it out. So to be sure, we had half of a birth kid at home. In case, like we had the day of the birth, we basically, we went to do a EVC. ECV, external sub-health version. Right. We went to do it, but when we arrived, we all realized or they realized that she was fixated and too far down. So they advised me against it. But because we were at the doctor's office, they were like, you know, take this home birth kid home. And then we're gonna order like a bigger one that arrives to the doorstep.
[29:50] And this was maybe 12 days before she was due. Yeah. And the strange thing was, was after the doctor said, like she's not going to flip, we felt the most peace we'd felt in the entire pregnancy. Yeah. We went home that day and Amanda fell asleep, like took a nap and looked like a graceful little angel sleeping on a cloud. She was so peaceful. I think that we had like fully surrendered and accepted like she is breeched, it's gonna happen. We're gonna attempt a natural birth. It might be a home birth, it might be a hospital birth, but we're gonna have this kid in case, you know, and we just felt fully at peace to stop kinda, we're not gonna fight it anymore.
[30:26] We're just gonna let it be this way. Right. So yeah, I took a nap. I went out for a jog. Amanda got up from her nap and went inside of the piano and played like two chords. And also, I just wanna add, like I haven't played piano my entire pregnancy. Like, this is like the first time I'm like, I'm gonna sit down and I'm gonna write her a song. Yeah. It would be beautiful to write her something. And yeah, I played two chords. Played two chords.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [30:51] It was major chords, minor chords. I'm trying to get a sense.
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [30:54] They were major.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [30:55] A major. Good question.
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [30:56] I was going for like the Coldplay vibe, you know, trying to write her something epic, you know. But you played like C and G. Yeah. And then my water broke. And then my water broke, yeah.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [31:06] Oh, I'm gonna try to recommend that to my other clients.
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [31:09] Yeah.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [31:09] Who wanna go into labor. The C-G combination.
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [31:12] Those courses have it, yeah. C and G. And I called John and I'm like, you know, don't freak out, but my water just broke. So yeah, I sprinted home from the other side of the neighborhood. We immediately like called our doctor. And at that point, we just knew, I mean, we didn't even think twice. Like from that moment, it was just gonna be a home birth. Like not once during the birth did I even think about the hospital. Like I didn't even consider it. It was just like, we're home, it's gonna be home. Yeah.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [31:42] Who was gonna be there besides the two of you?
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [31:45] In that moment, we just kinda, or I think I just felt very strongly that I just wanted to be alone with John. I think, cause I felt like the circumstances with the breach was so, I just felt like I really needed to just be on my own in a way. I mean, obviously with the support of the doctor. So we decided last second to not go with the doula. It wasn't so much of a decision more than it was just not calling the doula and just doing birth alone, if that makes sense. Which felt like a crazy thing. It felt like a very Frodo and Sam in the third movie experience, for sure. Yeah. Just us two. I mean, I think it had some pros and cons. It was really nice to be just with John,
[32:29] but obviously there's certain positions that will, you know, pain relief and stuff like that, that it would have been great to have that guidance. And I kinda had to figure that out on my own, but it was nice that it was just the two of us. Yeah. So then, yeah, I took about, I don't know, we slept through the night. I did all the hypnobirthing. I thought I'm gonna stick to hypnobirthing as long as I can. And I don't think I'm gonna make it all the way through, but I think I used it a lot in the first, like the early labor. We were just doing affirmations, laying in bed and relaxing and, you know, using language like welcoming the surges and the waves.
[33:07] We watched the notebook. Watched the notebook. To get the oxytocin flowing. So the early labor was really nice, like just very calm. And I think it was maybe about, yeah, I don't know how many hours, but 12 or 14 or something.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [33:23] At what point does your doctor come over?
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [33:26] So she came over in the morning during early labor just to check the heart rate and stuff like that. I was also told like, you know, if anything, we will go to the hospital, like not when it's a red flag, but when it's like a yellow flag, like very early, we will go. So I felt safe that like, if there's anything that feels off, we will leave, you know, immediately. Yeah. She came back a few times that day. I also had cranial sacral therapy mid-labor, which was really cool. It was actually one time in the session that I felt the contraction and it didn't feel painful at all.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [34:00] That's nice.
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [34:01] So there is actually pain-free like contractions, but I think that it was a very, overall, I think my strongest memory from birth is really like, depending on where I put my mind or how much I relaxed my body, the feeling of the contractions completely changed. The more I was like fearful, tensed up, like it was just so much more challenging. But when I was like relaxing and welcoming, like there was a lot of times it was really not painful and it was just cool how my mind and my body like played such a huge part in that.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [34:34] Amazing to be so consciously aware of that.
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [34:37] Yeah.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [34:38] All right, so how did things turn out?
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [34:41] I mean, the active labor in the shower. It was about two hours. The shower was a lifesaver. Yeah. And I was texting the doctor trying not to freak out because the doctor wasn't there yet and Amanda's contractions were two minutes apart. Also, I had no clue. About a minute long. Like John timed it. I didn't ever know like the time of it. You never like, I didn't want to be aware of time and space basically. So I didn't want to be like, oh, my contractions are slow and now they're fast. Like I knew I would get in my head about it. So I was just kind of present in my body and then John timed everything. So then in active labor, yeah, you start to get a little freaked out
[35:17] because I was like one minute apart. Yeah. No, I was cool as a cucumber on the surface, but yeah, I was a little nervous. On the deep down inside. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And then at that point I was like, don't talk to me, don't touch me. But I wanted you to watch me. Like the moment he left the room, the contractions felt more uncomfortable and painful. So I was like, you have to be in the room, but like, but don't stand in the corner. See you fly on the wall. Let me do my thing. And then I had this memory of a woman who had been on all fours from my Instagram. So I was like, maybe that's something I should try. Cause so at the end of the active labor,
[35:51] I was just on all fours in the shower. I just had to go in a deeper and deeper squat. It felt like for every contraction. I remember the knees on the tile in the shower. That was half of the challenge. I was like, I'm happy I've done some Pilates in my life.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [36:05] So eventually your doctor does come.
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [36:09] The doctor came right in the nick of time, like the calvary coming over the hill. And we marched Amanda from the shower to our bedroom. Like she was coming out for her like boxing entrance. And we meet three midwives that we've never met before. We met three midwives we hadn't met. Or not, we met once. And our doctor and you- Just jump on the bed. Started pushing. Yeah, cause since it's a breach, like you can't do water birth. Right. Obviously, or at least according to our knowledge, you have to do it. Right. Yeah, on the bed. And you didn't know how to push because how can you know how to push? But you instinctually did kind of know and eventually figured it out.
[36:56] And I think it was 16 minutes. Yeah, it was a very intense-
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [36:59] Of pushing?
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [37:00] Yeah.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [37:01] Wow.
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [37:02] There was no rest period, which I don't know. We heard also with breach, like the pushing part is faster. Yeah.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [37:10] And the booty came out first?
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [37:12] Yeah. Yep. The booty came out first. That's always a little interesting to watch a baby kind of back out of the parking space. It's so cute. Yeah. So I was hugging John, actually. Yeah. So you didn't see it, but we have the birth video. It's very cute. Yeah.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [37:28] Well, that is a total shift, if I've ever seen one, a 180. Did you ever finish the song, by the way?
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [37:36] No, I still have to do that. She interrupted me mid-session. What is that?
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [37:40] Yeah. Okay, I can't believe it. Just right when you're getting into the second chord, the water breaks.
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [37:45] Can I add that, I think it was 20 minutes after she was born, our birth kit arrives at our doorstep.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [37:51] Well, I am a little musical, but one thing I'm bad at is timing and the birth kit coming 20 after. That's kind of my song.
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [38:01] That's amazing. I mean, it was still 12 days early. You know, didn't know if she would arrive early, you know, but just a little too late.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [38:09] You guys are a really lovely couple. You have a great, each individual has a great energy and together you have this even greater energy. And I really appreciate you coming and sharing that incredible journey and birth story. And what I would love to do is really talk about what happens next because, you know, as smooth, as incredible as that birth story was, it doesn't always stay smooth right away. And postpartum is, no matter how it goes, kind of rocky terrain, I think. And so I would love to learn more about how you navigated that and what the experience has been like. And you've been gracious enough to agree to come back for a second episode on postpartum,
[38:54] which I'm really looking forward to. Thank you so much for coming and joining me today and joining our audience today and sharing your story. Before we go from this episode, where can we find you guys online?
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [39:08] Thank you, by the way. You could go to gluten-freemusic.com. That's basically our portfolio as you can see the work that we've done and- I love that for silly hack music, music interests. Yeah, gluten-freemusic.com with a dash gluten-free. Or yeah, I guess you can find our Instagrams as well. Always post things and sing some songs every once in a while on there.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [39:34] Are they your names?
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [39:36] Yes. John Shy Russell, so S-H-Y, so. And Amanda.Nordelius. Yeah.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [39:43] These are a dot?
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [39:44] Yes, Amanda.Nordelius.
Dr. Elliot Berlin, DC [39:46] Amanda.Nordelius, gluten-free. I love it. Thank you again for joining us and at home. Thanks for listening to the Informed Pregnancy podcast for more pregnancy and parenting information just like this. Visit us online at informedpregnancy.com and don't forget to tune in probably a few weeks down the road for part two, The Postpartum Journey.
Amanda Nordelius & John Russell [40:17] I got a.
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